Scrutiny of the DNA Project - 10/29/05



To review the DNA Participants as they relate to the

Calverts of Prince William/Stafford County and the results

table which is available from the DNA section of this site,

some significant observations can be made.



David Allen Calvert - via Clark Calvert of KY

Arvin Woodrow Calvert, Norman Lee Colbert - of John Colbert of AL (b 1825)

Raymond Otto Colbert, Lawrence W Calvert - Charles Calvert b 1803

WIlliam Edward Calvert and Jack L Colbert are all all -2 of off a base

and using a 25 marker test, they are all still 95% probable connected to

the Calverts who group with exact matches.



If each kit participant or family researcher would fill in the FT/DNA

form it would put the oldest known ancestor in and where he was born,

it would print out in the Genealogy cross reference and make it easier

to understand at a glance.



At any rate, here, we have 3 Colberts involved. IN my opinion, these

Calverts and Colberts all descend from a common ancestor with about 50

generations, thus the likelihood is 95% probability that the DNA test

is showing all share an MRCA and I have not even examined the volatile

markers in taking this viewpoint.



A more complete picture is involves the Prince William County Calvert

group, the "Other-Surname exact 25 Marker Matches, and then the group

that is either -1 -or -2 markers different on a 25 marker test --

these respondents should consider themselves part of the Prince

William/Stafford COunty group of Calvert descendants.



Very interesting are some of the dis-similar name matches. See the

results below:



*** The Beginning of the Prince William COunty Base group -

comprised of 25 Marker Exact, -1 or -2 Matches ***



25 Marker maches ** base group of Prince William County Calverts

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Norman Lee Colbert (Y37) normcolbrt@aol.com

William Carman Calvert BobbyNJOLD@hotmail.com

Arvin Woodrow Calvert (Y25)

mizzzepha@yahoo.com;mrspaul2@earthlink.net

Raymond Otto Colbert (Y25) rcolbert2003@wideopenwest.com

Lawrence W. Calvert (Y25) PIERCE372@aol.com

William Edward Calvert (Y25) ejswaniii@msn.com

Jack L. Colbert (Y25) libbyd803@yahoo.com

John Stewart Calvert (Y25) catherine@finbin.demon.co.uk

Larry Wayne Colbert (Y25) larrycolbert@msn.com

Lawrence W. Calvert PIERCE372@aol.com

William Edward Calvert ejswaniii@msn.com

Jack L. Colbert libbyd803@yahoo.com

John Stewart Calvert catherine@finbin.demon.co.uk



25 marker Match (1) - Genetic Distance - 1

-------------------------------------------

David Ray Calvert (Y25) - pjclvrt@msn.com



25 Marker Matches (8) Genetic Distance - 2

-------------------------------------------

Norman Lee Colbert (Y37) normcolbrt@aol.com

David Allen Calvert ohiocalverts@sbcglobal.net

Arvin Woodrow Calvert

mizzzepha@yahoo.com;mrspaul2@earthlink.net

Raymond Otto Colbert rcolbert2003@wideopenwest.com



*** End of the Prince William County Base Group***

***************************************************



Exact 25 Marker Matches with a dis-similar Surname

---------------------------------------------------

Ronald Johnson ( McNeil ) (Y25) maranatha1@tds.net

William Raymond Barton (Y37) bartonwr@comcast.net

joey stinnett joeystinnett2002@yahoo.com

Walter Reid Perkins, Jr. wperkinsjr@hatham.com

Rodger J. Fowler Rdy0247@aol.com

Lester McClure Hawes (Y37) Haw2ls@aol.com

Clinton Lyle Payne (Y25) clintnambel@earthlink.net

William G Camp (Y37) rebel717@juno.com



note: These dissimilar named kits need to address that they obtain a

37 marker test --- and we need 3 of the above Calverts/Colberts to do

the same to give us a good sample base. This may go to each of the

participants.



note: Of course, none of these can match a sample of another Haplo

Type in 10,000 years so Haplo Type I consideration for the six samples

related to Isaac Calvert and John Calvert cannot be considered.



Any other participants can find a close match to one of the above

and be -2 or better from that one sample -- then your sample belongs

in this group as well. You may miss others by more than 2 but if you

match the base group with -2 marker difference or less, then your

research should also be framed with George Calvert b 1668 as the

eldest documented Calvert in the line.



William Calvert b 1642 is considered and Accepted as the father of

George Calvert, b 1668--But we have no primary source document that

proves this to be the case. Hence RECRUITMENT should entail finding a

proven and documented descendant of George First Lord.



We are now moving into a realm where at least some members need to

order an upgrade from 25 to 37 markers. It further shows the need to

update the record with ancestor of origin information but use proven

or at least documented ancestors and don't just say George Lord Baltimore.

We need to show where each individual is documented to with proof

and let the table of comparisons show where commonality is present

and where 25 marker kits would have import.



keep in mind we have Edith, whom Marilyn Glenn is working on but no DNA

sample of course...gaining some ground in research though. There are other

researchers out there to whom this should have import, I just cannot

think of them all.



Karen Carty's cousin, Earnie Calvert - descent from Cynthia as shows

this way via George A. whom I think is George Augustus and found as

Augustus in one census if I recall this right. However, view the DNA

comparisons I did below for an understanding of the DNA mismatch and

Earnie's results. This is key to understanding how to use the results

for comparison....Earnie is Cynthia's son but we don't know by which

husband of Cynthia(who married 3 Calvert cousins)



Earnie is a descendent of Alexander Calvert (son of Cynthia who moved

to White County, IL) but remember, he was proly b Beford VA and was

in PW before removing to KY and ends up in White County. I think that

this is tied in here because Norman Lee is showing tracing to

Alexander via William J to John A. of AL b 1825.



1 Alexander Calvert 1783-185 b: April 27, 1783 in Bedford Co,

VA d: April 2, 1856 in White Co, IL

+Nancy Mayhew 1790-1844 m: August 16, 1805 in Bedford Co, VA

b: 1790 in Allen County, KY

d: January 22, 1844 in White Co, IL

2 George A Calvert 1813-1864 b: August 14, 1813 in TN

d: 8 May 1864 Hamilton Co IL

+Manerva A Hargrave 1817-? m: December 17, 1834 in White Co,IL

b: 1817 in Tennessee

3 James M Calvert 1837-1912 b: August 17, 1837 White Co,IL

d: April 16, 1912 Carmi, White Co, IL

+Clarinda 1840-1864 m: August 14, 1856 in Ringgold Co, IO

b: 1840 in Iowa

d: Abt. 1864 in Illinois

4 James Harrison Calvert 1857-1948 b: November 4, 1857 Ringgold

Co, Io.

d: November 25, 1948 Ironton

Iron Co, MO

+Nancy Jane Miller 1864-1950 m: September 28, 1879, Gum

Prairie, Wayne County, IL

b: June 4, 1864 in IL

d: November 8, 1950 Ironoton,

Iron County, Missouri

5 Joseph Earl Calvert 1894 - 1972 b: May 7, 1894 in Ewing,

d: March 28, 1972

+Mary Adelia Chaffee 1896 - m: August 2, 1921 in

Livingston, MT

b: Abt. 1896



Joseph Earl Calvert is the brother of Karen Karty's grandfather.



My point is: We know that Earnie fits the PW Co Calverts and Norman Lee

is in this group even if there are differences on a 25 marker test,

it is still in the 95th or better percentile that they share the same

most recent common ancestor (MRCA)...the question is, which is that

common ancestor. So below are the results from the 25 marker tests:

It won't fit on one line due to message format but lets take a look at

the markers(all are Haplo type R1b = English geo. origin of course.



Next we have David Ray Calvert who descends from Sidney W Calvert b

1835 in Georgia. This is actually intriguing as when I was working on

Sidney, I thought he belonged to the William Colbert family line,

where WIlliam Colbert lived SC/GA border back and forth. I need to

get to work on getting back to those researchers with this data.



Below: I do not use all the data from all of the people but rather

those that the results return has import for. Earnie above is noted

and I have added Alex into the equation for comparison analysis. The

reason for this is that ALEX is -1 to David Ray Calvert who fits the

table view below or 25 markers and although Alex doesn't fit, the

volatile markers can account for that difference.



I hope what I have shown below is helpful to all. We can see a need

for upgrades to 25 markers tests. What is of important is for each

researcher or participant to sign in to FT/DNA and update the oldest

known common ancestor and place born -- Do not use an ancestor who

is not documented as being an ancestor by an authority or by your

own research.



-----------------------------------------------------------------

Markers 1- 12 * * * (* = Volatile)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Arvin Woodrow 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

David Allen 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

Norman Lee 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Colbert

Raymond Otto 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Colbert

Lawrence W 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

Gary Ross 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

William Carmen 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

William Edward 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

Jack L 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Colbert

Larry W 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Colbert

John Stewart 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact Calvert

David Ray 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 -1 Calvert

Freddie Carl 13 23 14 11 11 17 12 12 13 13 13 29 -1 Calvert

Kenneth E 13 24 14 11 11 17 12 12 13 13 12 29 -1 Calvert

Alex Calvert 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 -3 Calvert#

Joey Stinnett 13 24 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 exact dif. name

Earnie 14 25 14 11 10 14 12 12 12 14 13 30 12x12 -7 no match



(note: Earnie was placed in this group due to the correspondence to

Norman Lee and a common female ancestor - It is obvious he is

not descended fromt the same common ancestor as Norman Lee, for

example)

(Note: # Alex is -3 but is minus 2 to the primary list and in

consideration==further the mismatch is -2 on a volatile marker and

I think that includes him in the descent of George Calvert b 1668

as a common group. Further view is neded for Alex though - see his

markers 13-25; this means it is very important to find adjacent lines

of Calverts to Alex and get their DNA for 25 marker tests)



-------------------------------------------------------------------

Markers 13-25 * * * * * * (* = Volatile)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Arvin Woodrow 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Calvert

David Allen 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Calvert

Norman Lee 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Colbert

Raymond Otto 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Colbert

Lawrence W 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Calvert

William Carmen data not available Calvert

William Edward 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Calvert

Jack L 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Colbert

David Ray 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 exact Calvert@

Larry W 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 15 17 -1 Colbert

Gary Ross 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 14 15 15 -3 Calvert

Freddie C 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 17 -3 Calvert$

Alex 16 9 10 11 12 26 14 19 29 15 15 15 15 -5 Calvert



(Note: @=Altough David Ray and Ken Calvert mismatched as -1 on the

first 12 markers but match 24 of 25 or, are exact matches on markers

13-25)



(note: $=all mismatches in 13-25 are on Volatile Markers for Freddie

and Alex and Freddie must be removed at this point. Alex is R1b and

not I which is Nordic. There is enough reason to consider that he

does not belong to the descendants as shown using 25 markers but with

12 it appears on the outside edge that he is a match)



11 11 19 23 16 15 17 17 35 38 12 12



-------------------------------------------------------------------

Markers 26-37 * * * * * (* = Volatile)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Norman Lee 10 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 35 37 11 12 Colbert

Freddie C 11 11 19 23 16 15 17 17 35 38 12 12 -5 Calvert$

Arvin Woodrow upgrade ordered

David Allen upgrade ordered

==the remainder are left out as the 37 marker upgrade is not ordered

and Norman Lee has no 37 marker matches.



(note: $=all mismatches for Freddie are again on volatile markers--

However, Freddie does not come from the same MRCA as Norman due to

the numerous mismatches--mutations occur in these markers frequently,

but most all should match--frequent means once in each 50 generations

approximately--not possible to consider Freddie for the same MRCA

though he does share a common ancestor father back--a difference

that should be noted by all who review these numbers as I have

built them. Common ancestor is a -1 on a 12 marker test or a -2 & in

the outside possibility, a -3 on a 25 marker test. However, Currency

of common ancestral origin is defined in the second two groupings

of markers, 13-37.).